Big Bad Books

As one of the biggest contributors to the costs of being, I figured I should give some tips on books.

I'm sure you've come across the one class where the required book is hella-expensive.  It just seems unfair that, along with rent, tuition and other costs, you get nailed with a 20 lb, $150 book that you may or may not end up using more than once.  I may not be able to help you understand Chapter 5's theoretical formulas for understanding astronuclear physics, but I can lessen the blow of that big book bill.


First of all, it doesn't hurt to find out if the book is ACTUALLY required for the class.  I had one course where the required book was about $17 and the recommended book was $80.  I emailed the professors, thinking this must have been a mistake or a typo.  Usually the more expensive one is the required one, right?


Wrong.  In this case, it was supplemental material for understanding what was in the tiny paperback we had to read.  I didn't end up buying that big expensive, recommended book because I was capable of learning the terms and other information online or through other free sources.  But even if I did need to use it, there are other options available then directly buying it.

The obvious option is to buy second hand books.  They are cheaper and are sometimes in just as nice condition as the original.  I've had a few situations where the previous owner was even kind enough to highlight terms and definitions FOR me.  Understandably, some used books may be in a condition similar to that of a used rat nest.  These kinds of second hand books are rare though, in my opinion.  Second hand books can be found in campus book stores, online, or on bulletin boards.  But options go beyond second hand!


Are you able to borrow the book from a public library or a friend?  Can you share a copy with a friend?  Is it available in the school library or online?


In any of these suitable possibilities, you are able to make photocopies.  I've heard photocopies of full books can still be a bit pricey, anywhere from $10-$40, depending on the size of the book.  This takes a lot of loose change for the photo copier and a lot of time to do.  I'm not aware of the photocopying laws for books, so I'm just going to play dumb here and tell you to figure it out on your own - I take no responsibility if you take it too far and sell a inch-thick photocopy version of a book. 


But do you need all those photocopies to begin with?  It's important to learn how much of the book are you going to use.  Will you simply be reading it once?  Or do you need to know that book through and through for the sake of the course?  Will you be using it more than once?  I have a book that will be used for several courses, so I snagged a copy of my own rather then borrowing it.  However, borrowing isn't even an option if no one has a copy to borrow.  So what do you do? 


Hop online!  There are several websites devoted to second hand books.  Some even offer rental services in which you return the book after the end of the semester.  One of my favorite is Big Words.  This website even compares prices from other websites, offering you the cheapest option.  However, sometimes these cheaper offers are from the US, so keep that in mind before you go "Ooh! That one's cheap!"


So there you have it.  Ways to take the bite out of books instead of the other way around!

Quarters in the pocket, not the lint trap!

Things have been busy, what with Thanksgiving having come and gone.  And midterms.  I blame midterms (they're my scapegoat)  That doesn't mean the ideas for saving money have slowed down, no, quite the contrary.

In fact, with Thanksgiving in mind, let me bring up a wonderful idea:  tupperware!

Potlucks are particularly great places to bust out the old plastic containers!  They can be inexpensive (bought from thrift stores or Value Village) or can even be old yogurt containers!  Anything that holds leftovers really, it doesn't have to be fancy.  Even if you just want to fill up a large plate or bowl with layers of food, that works.  If you're worried about a lid, use another plate to put on top of it instead of buying clingy, messy plastic wrap.  Please note this is not recommended for soup.  

People feel more shy about bringing tupperware then they should.  Although I will admit, it might be a bit out of place to just whip out the containers after a dinner with friends, it's a bit more socially acceptable for potlucks.  I just hate wasting food, and I'm sure others feel the same. I've been to small meetings where they've had food too where the hosts have insisted people take food home.  This not only helps reduce food waste, it lessens the clean up they have to do, and gives you an extra meal!  

The only rebuttal to this I've felt had merit regarded food safe.  After these meetings or events, food has been handled and possibly touched.  If someone from one of these events drags you from the hall and says "Hey guys, come get some free food, we're trying to clean up" you ARE taking that risk.  But put yourself in their situation:  you know the food is good, and you just want to get rid of it, or else it will go to waste.  Nothing wrong with that, right?  

I went to a club meeting.  When all was said and done, they wanted people to take the extra pizza home.  I obliged, and was ready to take it back to my residence.  On the way, I saw a group of people playing board games.  I popped in, yelled "Who wants pizza?!" and everyone obliged to take this free pizza.  Granted, they knew who I was, and trusted me. 

Moving away from saving money for a second, I want to discuss the other aspect of this blog: green living!  UNBC has started a competition on Facebook for students to share how they maintain a green lifestyle.  These are not big huge projects, but rather day-to-day acts and ideas that everyone is capable of doing.  Most of these are simple and actually have the potential to save you money!  They are well worth checking out.  My favorite (and apparently well-liked idea on the competition page) is from my friend.  She insists it will save you at least 50% of the energy required to dry your clothes.  Less energy spent = more money saved!  This is vital if your a student who hates letting the laundry machines eat your quarters.

Once your laundry is done from the washer, toss it into a drier with a DRY towel.  The idea is, the towel will absorb most of the moisture from your wet laundry, reducing the time required in the drier.  When your laundry is done, the towel itself will be a bit damp, but you can hang it up to air dry.  As my room mate pointed out, this may not work if your load of laundry consists of wet towels.  Then you're kind of screwed and will need to fork over the quarters. 

Can't win every time. 

Gasp! Let's go shopping!

    There's nothing like Autumn leaves falling and the temperature dropping to make you think, "Damn, I wanna go buy some stuff!"
    Now this urge to spend your money could be on food or on those awesome Fall sales going on everywhere.  This must-buy-something mentality of students hits strong at this time of year.  Trust me, I'm no exception.  But how do we counter this?  Well, for one thing, ask yourself, "Do I need this?"
   I'm not being facetious here.  Really ask yourself this question, whether deciding to purchase a flat of pop on sale or some cute new shoes (hey, don't judge!  Pumps are in season!)  Do you need that pop for an upcoming occasion?  Is a birthday party coming around the corner?  If it's on sale, then sure, buy it.
   Got a whole lot of nothing going on?  Can't see yourself drinking all that pop?  Or, are you trying to lose weight?  Then don't bloody well buy it!  Television and media has incorporated a consumer attitude into us, and once you look at it with an exterior perspective, you'll find yourself going "Whoa...I DO buy stuff I don't need!"
   Put the flat of pop back, fatty.  You have the rest of Fall to bulk up for the cold. 
   But if you find yourself already prepared to go shopping, credit card in hand charged with your student loans, then by all means, hit the malls... after you read on!
   When I go shopping, even I still manage to forget my reusable bags.  It happens.  However, with the push for the use of green bags, (Note, I tend to use green bags/reusable bags/recycled bags synonomously) some stores have started charging for plastic bags.  I'm glad for this.  Very glad!  Sure, 5 cents doesn't sound like much, but think about what these stores are doing; its a deterrent to buying and using plastic bags.  I'm certain they will eventually increase the price more and more until eventually, they will simply stop selling you bags and you'll be carrying your groceries out in a box or by hand!  GOOD!  This saves you having to buy those 5 cent bags and keeps one more plastic bags out of the trash.
   What if you don't have any bags?  Here's an idea.  The Wal-Mart here takes plastic bags and gives you reusable bags.  For every 40 plastic bags you bring in (they aren't too picky as to what color or size) they give you a sturdy recycled bag.  Now, I've mentioned this to a few people, and some are not too fond of the idea of supporting Wal-Mart.  I completely understand where they're coming from.  Some might not feel comfortable supporting a huge corporation.  And truth be told, I'm not sure if Wal-Mart ACTUALLY recycles them; I don't have proof.  I'm sure they can afford to though.  I might have to do some investigative reporting on that (phoning and pissing off some customer service reps)  But for those who are fine with that, you can get rid of your extra plastic bags and score some free green ones.  Or go to your local grocery store and pay the insanely expensive price of, what, $1 these days?  Or get them from a thrift store!  Or make them yourself!!!  There are practically no excuses NOT to have a green bag.  Just make sure you use them!
   Now let's fill those reusable bags!  But with what?  Well, how about food?  Yes!  Food's good!  If you've read my earlier posts, you already know my stance on Farmer's Markets.  Fall is harvest season, so get your ass down to those Farmer's Markets now and buy some pies and other goodies.  Nothing like a fresh apple pie that you didn't have to bake yourself, hehehe.
   I had mentioned earlier that buying food in season is really helpful for the environment.  This way, it doesn't have to be shipped halfway across the world at the cost of some third world country farmer getting paid a pitance.  But buying locally doesn't mean you can't buy in bulk!  The farmers market here in Prince George has a peach vendor.  Had I the time, I would totally buy some peaches and jar those suckers!  Nothing like jarred fruit in the winter! Yum!
    The other day, a friend of mine came across lots of apples.  He offered me some, and I picked them up in my nice fashionable green bag.  I finally got around to making applesauce with them.  Guess who doesn't have to go out and buy applesauce from the grocery store now, huh?  Money in the pocket friends, money in the pocket.  The only investment here is time, time in which you spend making the applesauce.  And trust me, it wasn't much. 
   But if you find something in the grocery store you want and need, it may be better to buy it in bulk as well.  Now, I know I wrote earlier to ask yourself if you NEED to buy something, and I stand by that statement.  However, if it is something non-perishible and your confident you will use it, then buy all means, buy in bulk.  This means less packaging waste, usually saving money in the long run, and less time wasted on buying the item repeatedly. 
   Let use toilet paper as an example.  I heard a comedian give a good perspective on this topic.  He stood on the idea that toilet paper is one thing you will buy, no matter what the price is.  It's just one of those non-negotiable items.  "$20.00 for a 10 rolls of toilet paper?!?....well....I DO need it!"  If there is a sale on toilet paper, especially as bulk, take it.  Stuff the extras under the sink, and you and your room mates will never have to worry about toilet paper for the rest of the year!  So, if you can find other products that would be appropriate to buy in bulk, just like toilet paper, use your noggin, ask if you need it, and if you do, buy it.  Might I suggest instant noodles?
   Let's go with instant noodles in the food discussion.  Sure, there's Raman, Ichiban, Mr. Noodle and other cheap brands.  What's the big difference though?  I mean, they're all cheap and instant, right?  Not quite. 
   The difference between lots of cheaper or lesser known name brands is more then just taste, it's ingredients.  These ingredients can make the difference in the nutritional value of food, that small chart on the back of the food product.  Kraft Macaroni and Cheese is good for this.  If you find no-name brands are cheaper, look at the nutritional value.  Generally, the lesser known brand tends to have higher sodium (there ARE exceptions)  They may have higher fat content as well.  Compare the two, hand in hand.  Ask yourself if you really care more about sodium, fat content or price more.  Sometimes there are other variables, but that's your responsibility. 
   This choice of brand can also apply to non-food products, like clothes.  Sales often go on to get rid of seasonal stock in Fall and Spring.  Fall sales get rid of Summer stock (bathing suits, swim wear, sandals, etc.) and Spring sales get rid of Winter stock (coats, boots, gloves, etc.)  This means great savings.  The only thing is, you often can't use your purchase for 6 months.  Last October, I bought some awesome outdoor sandals at Atmosphere (previously Coast Mountain Sports) for like $60 instead of $90.  However, I had to wait until the beginning of summer to use them.  But wow, did I ever use them a lot! 
  
   Keep those tips in mind, and you'll the most fashionable person buying bulk instant noodles on sale!

What's that smell? Oh right...laundry

   I haven't been in school that long, and already the pile of clothes in the corner is starting to grow.  I can see those good ol' laundry machines are at work eating students' quarters and loonies already.  Doesn't take long to get clothes dirty eh?  So what's a student to do?

   Well, there are options:

1. Wear clothes over, and over again.  Heck, I don't care to really wash a dress shirt until I get a visible stain on it or have worn it casually for a week.  Played some nitty-gritty ultimate frisbee and got really sweaty?  Yeah, you might want to wash that bad boy then.
2. Bring lots of clothes!  That way, you can wear something new until that inevitable day that you have to do laundry.  That's right, you know it's time when clothes begin to cover every part of your room.  This is actually not a bad idea, because you can wait and do a full load instead of half loads.   
3. Wait.  Your parents will visit you soon and you mom will surely do your laundry, right?...right?
4. Share.  If you just have a few articles and you are close with your roomies, ask them if you can throw a few shirts in their small load.  Don't forget, this works both ways; it's nice to do the same if you're doing the load.  
5. Do them in the shower.  I learned this trick while biking: wear your clothes and shower normally, or throw them on the floor of the shower.  Stomp on them as soap falls from you onto the clothes.  The squishing action will give them a weaker, but noticeable wash.  However, I wouldn't suggest this if your room mates are pigs in the shower or doing so with sensitive clothes.  I do this in a minor effort to extend the life of a quick-dry shirt for an extra week or so.  

Trust me, when you really have to do laundry, you'll know! 

   I know how expensive those loads can get.  So to even GET to the point of spending your hard earned cash, you must save it!  Anytime I get loonies or quarters in my change, I put it away in a little jar.  That way, when the dreaded laundry day does rear its ugly head, you'll be ready!  But there are even further ways to save money!

   For one, try to put laundry in the dryer immediately after someone before you.  The dryer will still be hot, and it will take less energy to reach that same desired heating temperature to dry your now-damp clothes.  Less energy spent, less time required, less change used to dry your clothes!

   Another alternative to THAT is to dry them yourself!  If you have quick dry clothes, such as those made out of simple light cottons, neoprene or polyester, then hang them up! Get a drying rack or tye a string across your room and hang 'em.  Thick cottons and wool take forever to dry.  Hell, even WITH a drying machine!  Spend the money ya cheap bastard!

   But what about soap, or those dryer sheets?  I've learned those dryer sheets aren't that great.  My room mate was telling me they wax up the dryer over the years, making it less effective in heating/drying your clothes.  Not only that, some people are allergic to them.  And even if you can put up with all that, they're still an extra item on that shopping list you can do without. 

  There are techniques to extend their life if you really do love them though.  You can rip them in half for each use and have twice as many, or you can use them over and over!  Those things smell for the longest time.  If they still do their job, why not, right?  If you see someone tossing one that seems barely used, snag it for next time!  Their loss is your gain.  But I have an alternative that I like to think is even better!

   It's the home-made re-usable dryer sheet!   And it's not hard to make at all!

All you need is:

Tin foil

Fabric softener 

and small sheet (an old, but clean rag will do)

   Roll the tin foil into a small ball, into the size of a golf ball or slightly smaller.  I mean, really squeeze this sucker.  Take that stress of exams and SQUEEZE!  All done!

   Now dip that small rag in the fabric softener.  Soak it and then squeeze it out.  Let it dry somewhere, preferably over a dish to catch drippings.  Once dry, you're ready to do some eco-friendly and cash-saving laundry!

The sheet and ball

 

 Seriously, you shouldn't be able to compress it anymore!

   You may be asking, "Umm...what the hell do these do?"  Well, it's quite simple.  Those dryer sheets claim to take the static out of clothes and leave them with a nice, fluffy fresh scent.  These two items you just created do the same!  The aluminum ball will take any static out of your clothes and the sheet will leave your clothes soft and smelling great!  I've also heard that it's rolling action in the dryer knocks any loose dust/dirt/lint off shirts.   Best of all, you can re-use them about for about 20-30 washes!  The ball will remain the same (unless you did a shitty squeeze job) but the sheet will lose its fabric softener freshness.  The remedy is simple.  Soak it and dry it again!  If this is all you use fabric softener for, it will last for a long time. 

  And there you have it.  An annoying but necessary habit made a little easier on the wallet.  Next week, fashion advice: why jeans are a no-no for outdoor labs in winter. 

Mmmm...food

   So this may come as a surprise, but I'm a big fan of food.  I enjoy cooking it, eating it, and on occasion, hucking it at someone's face (don't worry, it's not often that happens).

   So in the spirit of this blog, and in time for the wonderful Fall farmer's market taking place every Saturday, this post will be food based.

   Students love food, but sometimes, they lack the time, resources, and if you have ever had the misfortune of a fire bell going off at supper time, the skill.  I loathe the steroetype of the typical student surviving off of Mac and Cheese and Ichiban noodles.  I mean, come on, it's 2010!  You think people would have found new cheap and quick food.  Luckily, there is! 

   First of all, farmer's markets kick ass.  I will admit, when I was younger, I didn't really care about going to them.  A bunch of old guys pawning off dirty potatoes? Ooh, blech, icky, boring  (7-year old me never actually said that, but you get the idea)

   Now that I'm older, I can appreciate the fact that these old guys grow those potatoes, and picked those probably that morning, or the night before, and probably are not making that much money.  They do it because they love their job.  And should you befriend one of those potatoe farmers, make some small chat, and be a regular or semi-regular customer, he might occasionally throw in a few Yukon Golds in your shopping bag.  Although I find farmers tend not to have the same, flashy, OMGITSSOCHEAP deals as grocery stores or superstores, they may give you things at a discount, although it's usually because they are going out of season.  If you have ever looked at the due date on those 50% off apples in the grocery store, you'll find they are doing the exact same thing!  

   With that in mind, if you buy, say, a 50% off red pepper that's starting to get a little soft, then cook it THAT DAY!  So your meal plans do make a difference; try to use what's perishable in your fridge as often and fast as you can, so that it doesn't go to waste and get thrown out.  I don't need to tell you, that's money in the trash there!

(***Added 9/12/2010:  In my efforts to provide well-rounded information, here are two websites that provide information AGAINST buying local food.  They are not that long, nor hard to understand, so I urge you to take a quick read and decide for yourself.)

• http://alwaysupward.com/blog/why-buy-local-makes-me-cringe/
• http://www.chrishardie.com/blog/2008/11/is-eating-locally-produced-food-a-bad-idea.html

   If you find you can't go to farmer's markets, you can continue buying local by supporting your home's Good Food Box program.  They sometimes go by different names, like Food Boxes, Local Food Sales, etc.  

   You make be asking, "What is a Good Food Box?"  Well let me tell you my friend in my own colloquial terms: It's a big-ass box of fruits and vegetables, sometimes delivered to your door or close location.  They are often very cheap, around $15-$20.

Some of last year's Good Food Boxes (in bag form).  

There are two Good Food Boxes here.  

That's a lot of food!

   I know from the ones I've worked and volunteered with, these programs often TRY to get as much local fruits and vegetables in them as possible, but sometimes they do have to ship out of town, or even out of province!  Last time I checked, the grocery stores did that as well.  However, to be fair, grocery stores are still capable of selling local produce as well.  Just make sure you look at the sticker or labels. or ask your grocer.  You'll feel a little better as you buy that mega-size bag of chips on sale for that party later (hey, junk food in moderation is still good!)

   But what do you do with all that food?  Well, you sure as hell don't let it sit in the box! You eat it!  Onions, apples, potatoes, celery, peppers, brocolli.  Cook it, bake it, broil it, eat it raw!  

   I recently came across a youtube channel that might be good for students.  It's very befitting for this blog.

http://www.youtube.com/user/brokeasscooking#p/a/u/1/mE0HyeTXhUY

It speaks for itself.

There are plenty of other links out there online to help the hungry yet culinary inadept (that means you suck at it!)  Here's a list of more that you might find interesting http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/7-helpful-online-resources-beginner-cook/

   Don't feel shy about searching online for other money-friendly recipes.  Most of the time, it just takes little effort to make cheap and nutritious meals.  Say you take that Mac and Cheese.  Fry some mushrooms and green onions, maybe some diced ham, and add it to the Mac and Cheese.  BLAMO!  You're not a lazy student, you are a conneisseur of the culinary arts and a patron to classic recipes of your predecessors.  By the way, if you're gonna cook for a girl, tell her that BEFORE you hand her the fancy-pants bowl of KD ;)

Students loans be damned, I know what I'm doing!

  And with the start of the school year comes a huge influx of energetic students, crazy events to get them active and involved and...well, shopping.  One of the many things students will somehow find the cash for.

  And with that, I put forth the first few ideas of how to save money while attending to school, especially when living at residence.

  I'm sure many students were appreciative of the free BBQ's.  This year, first-years were required to register for orientation so to get their free hamburger.  It goes with little saying that this is highly suggested for several reasons:

1. It's freakin' free!
2. Between lugging a moving truck's worth of crap into a room half the size of said moving truck, meeting new students and room mates and RA's, and rushing to get fees and books paid for, you have no time to go shopping unless your parents were nice enough to buy you food.
3. You may find not only do you not have the ingredients to make a decent meal, but neither the kitchen utensils or time.
4. The busses weren't running on Labor Day, so unless you had a vehicle to the grocery store wasn't an option anyway!
5. It's free!  You're a busy student, take advantage of a hot meal!  What's that? You're tired of burgers? Suck it up buttercup and grab a bun! 

  Last year, they had a BBQ and were finishing off a bowl of chips.  You know, where there's nothing but crumbs and small broken chips at the bottom of the large bowl.  The server was about to throw it out but I offered to take them off his hand.  I mean, come on, free chips!

  Unfortunately, he said he couldn't give them to me to take home.  It was actually some sort of health hazard that I didn't quite fully understand.  I felt a little disappointed, even if he was doing his job.  I hate wasting food!

  I've made it a point to tell my friends of two wonderful opportunities to obtain what they need aside from buying:  the Reciprocity Shelf and Freecycling.

  What is the Reciprocity Shelf? (Hell, I didn't even know how to say it for the first half of last year.  Incidentally, it's pronounced ress-sip-ross-ity)

  The Reciprocity Shelf is a shelf where perfectly good items (clothing, toys, kitchen utensils, books, etc) are placed.  These are everyday items that people can't bear to throw in the garbage, but don't care to sell, and are still functional (often) and good to use.  It's like a free garage sale!  I found shot glasses with letters on them that spell out KLINKO.  I don't know what the heck KLINKO means, but I'm going to turn it into a drinking game!

 Revel in its reciprocity-ness!

Look what kind of goodies there are: a sink/dish mate, clothes, a mug, cutlery!

  The other, Freecycling, is a online community created for the same purpose; to give another life to everyday products that people don't want to see trashed.  Once you find if your community has a FreeCycle network, you can sign up and begin posting!  Unlike the Reciprocity Shelf, you can email the group for things you want!  This works especially well in large cities, like Vancouver or Montreal.  There is a good chance that somewhere, out in the city, someone is giving away what your looking for!  Or better yet, someone might be looking for something you're willing to get rid of!

  I was recently given a toy RC helicopter.  I have no use for one, so I posted it, and lo and behold, I had literally more than 10 people asking me for it within a day!  And lucky for me, a professor here at the university was one of the people who wanted it, so I dropped it off at his office in person!  Convenience!

  I find it works on the "take a penny, leave a penny" principle.  Although I can honestly say I've taken twice the amount of things I've given, I still feel good knowing that I've kept people from throwing things out in the trash and surpassed having to spend money on a brand new product.

  Freecycling and the Reciprocity Shelf: two ways to extend the life of everyday items and products and a great chance to get some free shit!  Last time I checked, free is pretty easy on the wallet.

  For other chances to snag free swag, check out the free sections in Craigslist or Kijiji (at your own risk)  

  I highly suggest students at UNBC check these out.  If you don't have a reciprocity shelf at your own university, try getting one started!  You'd be surprised at what people are giving away!

Damn...school starts tomorrow!

So begins another project of mine, fresh from the depths of my mind, deep in the hidden (very well hidden, might I add) portion of my brain that seems to purpotrate a weekly rendition of "Hey, you know what'd be a cool idea?"

This is a blog aimed at students saving money, and maybe saving a tree or two in the process.  I mean, hell, why not right?  Trees are cool...they give shade...and stuff.  Being as how I'm majoring in Environmental Planning, why not?

The idea came to me as I was travelling back with the family of my friend who had just gotten married.  I had staved off the dreaded idea as "full-time employment" for the entire summer.  However, the looming threat of student loans still lingered.  What a nasty taste to have after having such fun travelling across Canada.  Oh well.

My problem remained: How could I pay for school?  I had enough to cover most tuition costs, but everything after that would rely on student loans and (fingers crossed) bursaries.  Thankfully I'm smart...on occasion.

So what happened was, rather then finding a viable solution in the long car ride back to Prince George, I had what some might call "a distraction."  Fleeting thought, brain fart, whatever it was, it was this:

What about a blog devoted to the idea of saving students money?

I will admit, it was not the most revolutionary idea.  I had done blogs before, but they were more personal.  And so, I plan on this blog to be about my personal accounts on overcoming student debt while in school.  Efforts would include thrifty living, how to apply for bursaries, breaking down costs, the pros and cons of getting a part-time job, whatever may come that has to do with keeping students funds in their wallets instead of in the money-eating machine that is the post-secondary educational institution. 

I plan on tackling specific topics in the categories of travel, recipes/do it yourself, food, school, living/home, and other.  They might change along the way.

Sorry about the design.  I'm not a hardcore techy.  I'm going to focus on content rather than aesthetics.  Hopefully someone out there will help me out in that department down the road.